Ryan Coffey: Navigating the Firefighting Interview Process with Expertise and Empathy Ryan Coffey brings a wealth of experience from his distinguished career in firefighting and his passion for coaching aspiring firefighters through the rigorous interview process. With over seven years of professional firefighting experience at departments like Everett and the Port of Seattle, Ryan has not only excelled in his field but also paved the way for LGBTQ firefighters. His commitment to diversity, excellence, and mentorship shines through his work, both on the front lines and in his interview coaching business, where he helps candidates transform their aspirations into reality. In our conversation, we dissect the complexities of the firefighting interview process, offering invaluable insights for those looking to join this noble profession.
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Ryan's insights not only shed light on the tactical aspects of preparing for firefighting interviews but also emphasize the importance of self-awareness, continuous learning, and the power of helping others succeed. Whether you're a seasoned firefighter looking to advance your career or a newcomer eager to break into the field, Ryan's guidance offers a roadmap to achieving your goals with integrity and passion.
Welcome to a duty to act with your host, Jennifer darling.Hey, everybody, it's Jennifer with a duty to act. I'm here with part two of my interview with Ryan Coffey talking about how to get the job. We pick up where we left off the last episode, talking about the CPAT test.It's a made up number, but you know what? Do you know how much time people are really putting into their interviews? It's not a ton. No. And if you can put in, I would say, 100 hours of good work, you're going to come out looking really good compared to a lot of your competition because they're just not putting that much time into it. And 100 hours, I mean, that's 100 days of 1 hour a day. And I'm going to tell you that's just a little over three months.You got three months of work in you easily.I think three months is about a reasonable amount of time to prepare for the CPAT test, assuming that you have a baseline of fitness, not necessarily strength or crossfit or cardio necessarily, but endurance, but to truly prepare for the CPAT. Those are the recommendations that the trainers say is, give yourself three months to get ready for this. Give yourself three months to get ready for the stairclim. Hopefully you can do it all the time, but they tell you these things. And so if you imagine that you're getting ready for the CPAT, then you put in the same amount of workout time into your interviewing.Or maybe that's what you think about when you're walking on the stairmill or dragging the heavy rope with a tire attached something. Maybe you're thinking about your answers. So that's a great way to think about it.There are minutes within the day that you can kind of multitask. I've got a client who's a security guard, and I actually walk by him on the way to the gym, and I was like, hey, what question are you working on today? It's like, oh, it's been a busy day. And I'm like, okay, but you've got time to practice, and you've got time to think over your answers. And this is the time where you can kind of double dip. Like, yeah, I'm working.Be attentive. Like, do your job. I'm not saying don't do that, but use your time wisely. I wanted to talk about the CPAT really quick. Oh, yeah, please.I think the CPAT, a lot of misconceptions in the CPAT are that that's the bar to entry. Yeah, it's the bar to entry. But the CPAT's not saying that you are at the physical fitness of a firefighter. What the CPAT is actually saying is you're at a physical level to where you can be trained to be a firefighter. And so I know people that are like, oh, I did it.I passed the CPAT. And this was, like, their 10th time attempting it, and they just barely passed, and they've achieved it, and that's not the case. Firefighting is a tough job, physically and mentally, and you can get hurt, and it's really important to take your health serious. Don't just do this for a career, obviously, but the job can injure you. Right?Firefighters, you don't get a lot of sleep, you don't get a lot of recovery. And so if your point of entry is low, you just passed the CPAT, and that's your starting point for your career, and you're only going to get probably worse from there. It's not a very good starting point to be at. So I would caution people, if you're just barely passing the CPAT, you're probably going to have a pretty tough career ahead of you. Don't let that be the bar.Raise the bar. Be more tough. You're going to need it. And I would say hire a trainer. Go to CrossFit.There's a lot of Crossfitters out there that are police officers and firefighters, too. So you might make some connections in that arena as well. But don't let the CPAt just be like, hey, I achieved it. I passed the CPAT. That's not the bar.Yeah, that's great advice. That's also advice that I wouldn't have known to give. So I really appreciate that. Absolutely. Okay, I got a question to hit you with.Let's throw it on me.You can totally up to you whether you want to answer it or tell us the strategy for answering it.Okay.What are your greatest strengths?Well, I'll tell you. My greatest strength is curiosity. I like learning about things and solving problems. And so if I encounter a problem, I like to use my curiosity in a way that helps me solve it. And so, gosh, what would be a good story for myself on that?So I helped Everett fire redo their mission vision values. So I kind of touched base on this. Earlier, they brought in a Dr. D. Hicks.He came in and gave us a presentation for the facilitators, and I was one of the facilitators on how to go about changing our mission, vision and values. And one of the things that our fire chief wanted to do was make the values ours, not just him up there deciding, these are our values for reasons x, y and z. He wanted them to be truly department values. And so what does that mean? And so for us, it was actually, what are the actions that we take? And if you could video one of us doing it, those would be what our values are. And so my curiosity in this arena was, what are our actions?And what do we kind of pat ourselves on the back? Know, Everett is a department which is really, know, they're a tough department, and they go and fight fires. I mean, I've literally gone from structure fire to structure. Know, you finish up at one, you go right to the next, and then you throw in a CPR right after. So it's one of those things that it's a tough department, and it was really fun to be curious and start to dive into, well, what are the things that make this department great and build that into our culture and kind of put that up on a pedestal. Like, these are not just our values, but these are also our goals.And utilizing my curiosity to help the department and facilitate that for the department to create those. That was fun.I love that answer for a couple of reasons. First of all, you answered the question rather than just giving strategies for it, which, of course, your call here as you hear these questions. But what I like is that you were able to start with what you believe is your greatest strength, which was curiosity. You found a story, and also the story is one that really serves to tell a much better picture of who you are. That wasn't a made up story.You clearly were feeling and expressing that story as you were telling it. It wasn't over rehearsed or anything, because you're talking about something that you know to be true about yourself. So I think that your example that you gave, your strength, that you gave, and then your telling of it says it all right there, that you've thoroughly answered that. And I want to know more about you and the work that you did with mission, vision, and values and how your department responded. So I think that's a great thing to do in an interview, is make them want to know more about you.I think, too, it took me a second to kind of think of my answer, and I think a lot of people in the interview setting, they get nervous and they're like, oh, I've got to answer immediately. No, take a moment. Breathe in your nose, out your mouth. I always tell this to my patients. Smell the roses, blow out the candles.Right breathe in your nose, blow out your mouth. Take a second, think. Because I would rather you take a second and think through what your answer is going to be and have it be really good than you to just like. It's like you're walking with your shoes untied and you keep tripping over what you're going to say. I don't want that.Right. You're trying to set as good of an example of who you are, and you're putting that out in front of you.Okay, very nice. All right, next question. What are some things that you find difficult to do?There's a lot of ways to answer this question. Again, you kind of want to focus on the work environment. I think one thing you kind of find in the fire service is some things just don't make sense. And the way we've done things is kind of an answer that's given often, and I find it difficult to accept that answer. I don't like it.There's new ways to do things. And I'll tell you, one of the challenges of coming to port of Seattle was I have, over seven years, professional firefighting experience from a really good department.Busy, hard. Yeah, absolutely.You get a lot of experience. And so it was interesting coming to the port of Seattle, and sometimes you got an answer of like, well, this is the way we've always done it. And I was so thankful to be on my shift. A shift go us or tip of the spear? Because I was kind of expecting that answer a little bit of like, well, this is the way that we've always done it. And thankfully, on my shift, I didn't experience that.They were like, hey, you've got some experience. I want to learn from you, and what can you share to make us better? And I was really thankful to be in that situation because I don't like the answer of like, well, that's the way we've always done it. I think it's a cop out. And there's so many different ways to look at solving these different issues that we've got, and times have changed. And part of the benefit of diversity in a department is you see the different ways that people think based off of their life experiences, and you can learn from that.All right, so this one is in that same family or same theme of question, but I do think this is a funny one. So after six months on the job, what will be the most annoying thing about you?Well, I would say I guess I can answer this kind of however I want. It's kind of an interesting question. The most annoying thing about me, and.I should comment that what people can't tell is the big smile that hit your face as soon as I ask this question. This question made you laugh and I think that's a great reason, but please go on. What will be the most annoying thing about you in six months?Gosh, I like to have fun. I really do. And some people might find that a little bit annoying. I love to be professional, too. I think it's really important.I think just like joking around and having fun, I think that can be somewhat annoying to some people. I don't know. That's a tougher question to answer because it's so subjective and it depends on the person. I enjoy joking around and having fun with my friends at work, and I know when to turn that off and turn on the professionalism. So it's a delicate balance on that.I also can get a little nerdy, and I think that can be annoying to some where I want to dive into the reasons why we do something and. Okay, well, does this make sense? Is there a way to make this system or process more efficient? I like efficiency and so I could get a little bit nerdy in that regard, but I think for the most part, people would actually enjoy that.Yeah. What I like is for the three questions I've asked, three for three. Curiosity has come out of all of those. I would want to know this or I can be annoying because of that, but your curiosity that you're going to have questions and so on, I like that. I think that a good answer to this.I've gone over this question with students in the past, and I think that you never go wrong by sharing, really what will annoy people about you. But let's be realistic about it. You'll be annoyed because my feet stink. No, you'll be annoyed because I'm going to ask a million questions. That's a great thing to be annoyed by or to want to have fun.I really want to be happy with my coworkers and so I joke around and try and make sure people are laughing all the time, but I bet you that can get annoying. So that's a good way to think of it.Thank you.Next question. How do you define success?Yeah, I look at success in a couple of different ways. Firefighting is a team sport, and my success is actually everybody else's success. So the way I tackle this at work is I want other people at work to be successful because when we're all operating on a high level, we can all be successful. And I don't need the accolades. I don't need, hey, a good job, Ryan.We all did a good job. That CPR, nice job. We did that as a team. And so it's seeing where some people might struggle in certain areas and talking with them and helping them get better. Right?And I would expect somebody to do that for me, too, because it's a team sport here and I can do a lot on my own, but, gosh, I can't revive a person 100% on my own or I can't go fight that fire 100% on my own. And if one piece is lagging, it affects the whole rest of the team. So that's what success is to me.So I love that answer as well. I would have to say if there was an objective scoring on, like, this is the best answer to have and this is the worst answer that is going to be just in the top tier of answers because that shows that you know about the job, that you understand what the work is like, that it is a team sport, which is a great way to think of it, and that you want to help others and bring them along and you are very genuine. So obviously it's not so much that you had an answer that was a perfect answer ready to go, but rather you know exactly what you're talking about there and how you feel about it. So that really came across. I thought about that answer.One of the students that I've asked you to run through a little question and answer with them and one of the students said, everybody goes home safely. And I thought that's a really interesting way of answering. And it was that simple. It was that short and that was that simple. And then I talked to this student later and found out that they actually had a personal tragedy in their family related to fire, EMS, police job.And it was the most soulful, exact answer for them. And it comes across, I'm like, well, that was a little pat. They were thinking about that, but it kind of blew me away when I found out the backstory. And of course, that's a fantastic answer as well. But you're looking.But I think share that story because I get a lot of people who, in my experience of interviewing, you get a lot of people and they're interviewing and it's fire this, fire that, fire this, fire that and ems this. That's great. But you're not sticking out right. You're kind of blending in with the crowd and if you're going to share that, everybody goes home safely, back that up with a story, and that's going to make me remember you, and that's going to go, wow. And I understand more.So what you mean by that now? Because I could say, well, curiosity is one of my strengths because I like to be curious and figure things out. But when I can back that up with some more evidence, then you start to understand, well, now I know what he means by curiosity, because curiosity can mean a multitude of things.Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, I love that you've had that theme that's come up, which is really great. So because we just defined strengths or we talked about your strengths, tell me what failure means to you. Define failure.Yeah. I think you have intrinsic idea of what failure is. I've failed myself, and then I think you have an external failure where I've failed others. I try not to do both, but there are moments I think we're hard on ourselves. We are our own worst critic.And I'm working two jobs. I've got my fire department job and I've got my interview coaching job as well. And I kind of have to give myself some grace sometimes because I just want to keep working and I want to keep moving forward. And I don't take the time for myself where I need to rest. And that is actually a failure, too, where I'm not relaxing, I'm not taking the time to recover like I need to.And so, yeah, I can go and work 100 hours in a week and I've done it and I actually do it consistently. And when I have those opportunities where I can take an afternoon off and just relax and maybe watch some Netflix or something, I'm getting better about taking that. And unfortunately, my dad is one of my role models. He is a workaholic. I mean, he's in his seventy s and he's still working.Wow. And he's working dusk to dawn, basically. And I've developed some of those habits from him. And I love my dad. That's not the way I want to live my life 100%.I'm willing to work hard for things, but I'm not going to work dusk till dawn and just burn the candle at both ends. My mantra now is a work life balance. And so that's kind of been my focus again. Going back to failure on an intrinsic level is recognizing the need to just take a moment and take a break.So, great answer. And really cool about your dad there. I really like that one because you told the story, you thought about it, you told a story that defined it, but you also brought it back and kind of tied it in at the end. And sometimes I think it feels like we go off on these tangents and you have to bring it back full circle to get that story told properly. So I think that was really good.I'm going to do two questions now. One and then the other, but they are number questions. And what I mean is, I'm going to ask you to give three things and then I'd love you to tell me your thoughts on those kind of questions. I have been a part of two oral boards where I was asking the questions and it was a three. Give me three.So name your top three work related accomplishments.Well, I got firefighter of the year when I was at Spokane County Fire District ten, and then later I got a bugle award at Spokane County Fire District ten as well, which is a leadership award. You get bugles, and those are two. The reason why I got the bugle award was I was in crew leader Academy and we were all assigned. It's kind of like academy nowadays where you've got an officer that goes with firefighters from the department, typically. And it was a similar structure at district Ten.And we had so many crew leaders that were going through that. Not all the crew leaders had a company or firefighters with them. And so I did not have any with me. And there were these two female firefighters who their crew leader was not the best leader for them. And so I spent time after hours working with them, helping them work on their folds for their tarps and just firefighting skills.And then I sort of pseudo became their crew leader, and they both ended up passing academy in part because of the hard work that they put into it, but also some added leadership that I brought into it. And because of that, I got the leadership award. And that meant a lot to me. It was awesome to help somebody else succeed, because, again, going back to my earlier statement, be the person that you needed earlier in your life, and we all need help at some point. So those are really like two of my fire career accomplishments.I think the third one for me would be when I was at Everett and I was the first gay male firefighter out at the department and I had this kind of pressure to be successful, whether that was imagined or real. I feel like it was real. Where being the first of anything, there are some biases that people have, and I wanted to prove to people that me being gay is just a really small portion of who I am. I have so many other qualities that hopefully people think about before they think about my sexuality. And unfortunately, that's not always the case.And so I had to show that I could do the job very well. And it wasn't just for myself, but it was actually to disprove that bias, but also to help other firefighters that want to come in that are LGBTQ. Right. Give them the opportunity to be set up for success. And so if I can kind of, so to speak, pave that road for them, I wanted to, and I felt like I did a really good job of that at Everett as well as the port of Seattle.And it was even so much to the point at Everett where I had some of my coworkers tell me in private that their children are in the LGBTQ groups, and I was kind of mentoring them. And I'm going to tell you, that's really powerful when you've got this 40 to 50 plus year old firefighter asking this 26 year old fresh firefighter advice that was really empowering, and it just told me what an accomplishment that was. So those are my top three things.Those are your top three. Those are all wonderful. And I like that you were able to come up with three answers. The question I was going to ask you as a coach on that one, what happens if the person says, I can only come up with two? Is that a recoverable moment?You're not going to get full points for the question, right? A lot of these grading rubrics are, did the candidate answer the question to completion? And so if you're only giving two examples, you're not going to get full points. You could have two really excellent examples. You're just not going to quite get to that top mark.And another great reason for preparation, just be able to recall the good and the bad. And so sticking with the bad, then. So name could you identify three mistakes that you've made or three errors three times when you've been wrong in your work experience? Doesn't have to be the top the most. Just give us three examples.Three wrong examples. You know, one of the things that comes to mind is, you know, we were doing a drill. I was at Everett, we were doing a drill, and we were the first in engine, and we're at our tower, and it's a fire on the second story or something like that. And I don't remember the exact circumstances, but basically we were the second in engine, and we were supposed to support the first in team getting a line up to the second story. And instead I had actually helped my driver get a water supply, and my captain was like, hey, what happened there?And I was like, I don't know what happened. My brain went a different direction. And he was like, hey, no big deal. But we talked through what the job was, and you didn't do it right. Not a huge deal, but it's definitely important.Like, you got to know your job. Another example, we had a patient who was on the pad of Providence emergency room. They had called 911, and they wanted to go to the emergency room, and they're on the pad of it, of the hospital. And this was a frequent flyer of ours, and he had discharge paperwork in his hands, and they wanted to go to another emergency room. And I never said no.What happened was, I was like, okay, well, what were you here for? And he was like, I had a hernia. I said, okay. And they discharged you? Yes, they discharged me. Okay, so why do you want to go to the emergency room? A different emergency room? And then he kind of blows up and then storms off. And I was like, okay, well, I guess we're just going to go back in, like, tried chasing you down.It's not happening, okay? He ends up calling dispatch, and then dispatch gives him the number to our battalion chief. And our battalion chief was like, hey, Ryan, what happened? Why is this going on? Why am I getting a phone call from a patient? And I was like, I explained the whole story, and he wanted to go to Evergreen Hospital.It's quite a distance.It's quite a distance. And he's like, well, just call him an ambulance. And I was like, okay, we'll do. And so that was a little bit of a mistake that I made, as far as a third mistake, I would think. For me, I got burned out at Everett.I just took on a lot. I think at one point, I was on seven different committees. I was a pure fitness instructor. I was in peer support. I helped do our mission, vision, values for the fire department.I was on the diversity committee at the department. I was on the diversity committee for the city. I was a shift steward for our union. I also helped the Snomish County Fire Chiefs association redo their mission and vision and values on top of working my regular shifts and then working overtime on top of that. And I just got burned out.And I think for me, if I could go back and do it again, it would be more work life balance. That's the lesson that I learned from it. And when I lateral down to the port of Seattle, that's been my mantra. I want work life balance. When I'm here at work, I'm going to do a really good job, and I'm going to take on the things that I'm passionate about.I don't want to take on something because somebody asked me to do it, which was really common in Everett, and I enjoyed some of the stuff I got to do, but it was also just a lot. And then you're having a personal life on top of that. I've got a relationship. I've got my partner. We're engaged.We want to travel. We want to go do things. I've got friends I want to go spend time with. And that work life balance wasn't there. And I was so sleep deprived that I turned into a different person, and I didn't like who that person was.I think what's really good about the answer that you just gave is that you came up with actual scenario circumstances of real life events that happened that qualified as a mistake. And then I could tell that you went really deep and you said, you know, I could tell that there's regret when you say that. And that comes across really clearly. So hopefully the listeners kind of picked up on that as well, because that is an honest answer, and that's an answer that I can identify with and both of the other things I can identify with, by the way, but that's an answer that I can really identify with. And it speaks more about you than the job.Right. It speaks more about who you are. So that's a great way to personalize and answer to know yourself that well, that you can be honest with yourself and then honest with a panel of people that are talking to you. That's really good.Thank you.I have to tell you that the first time I came across that question, I was like, well, I fall down a lot and not trying to make light of it, but I get back up. But I tend to always be putting my foot on the wrong spot or grabbing the hose, and then the line gets. Then they shut down the hose. Right at the moment that I'm trying to pull the coil of hose, they shut it down, and the hose action like flies. I go flying around or something.So for me, the first time I encountered that question, I'm like, well, first of all, I fall down a lot, and then that's like. But let me explain a little bit more. I get back up. I'm a bit smaller in stature, not a very small woman, but I'm a bit smaller in stature than the average firefighter that I work with especially. And I tend to get into it like I'm doing it.I'm going to move that hose. I can move that hose. The hose is there I'm going to move it. And actually, no, I needed help. And so it ties into a bigger picture of my, maybe not so much my ego, but this internal machismo that I have to keep in check sometime where it's like I can do it, and then I make these mistakes where it's like, I shouldn't have said I could handle that 14 year old psych patient by myself in the back of the ambulance.I should have had somebody sitting with me. It would have gone better for all of us. And I'm not going to come up with a third because I don't want to take up too much time. But that's what crossed my mind the very first time was like, oh, I fall down a lot.Yeah. But I think you took that and you turned it into something deeper and more meaningful. And I think you did a great job of that.Thank you. Okay, so the last question that I sort of want to ask you might be a really broad question, but of the sort of list of questions that I have that I want to ask you is what motivates you to put your best effort out in a job? What motivates you to put forth your best effort?I'm a pretty intrinsically motivated person. Again, I like helping people. I grew up helping take care of my mother. That's kind of where I got that caretaker personality, I guess. I like leaving things better than the way I found them.And that's why I took on a lot at know. I wanted to make that department better. I helped start the diversity committee at Everett because I wanted to increase our diversity at the department and not lower the standards because I felt like lowering the standards was actually creating a disadvantage for everybody, including the department. And so what motivates me is making something better and collaborating with people to figure out maybe it's not just my idea of better, it's our idea of what's better. And that's what really motivates me.And so with my clients, too, I bring this into my business. What motivates me is seeing them succeed again. Their success is my success and collaborating with them. And it's not me giving them an answer to a question. It's me helping draw out their experiences and going, why do these experiences matter?How does this correlate into the fire service? And that motivates me. I love seeing when they get their job. Like, I had one client who got hired at know and he was so excited. And I actually work with his brother at the port of Seattle, and his brother was know. He just needed this.He needed that win. And thank you so much for helping him. That warms my I, because I know that experience. I know exactly the way he felt. And so that's that feeling that motivates me.Yeah. And I think that ties in the story that you just told, but that ties into what you've said several times now about being the person that you needed, is that you really set yourself up to be the person that you needed for other people. Right. And so that's really wonderful. A big reason why I wanted to end with that question is because I think that it shows, as the questions have gone, they've been questions maybe a little bit designed to put you off, what's your strength, what's your weakness?Or list three things to see if you can think on your feet. But this one is a little bit more about as a department, what can I do to get the best out of you? And I think I really like those kind of questions when we ask them at Mount Vernon, when I say, like, if we hire you, what can we do to make you the best that we have? Just work so well with us. What can we do to make it a great place for you to work? And I think that there's sort of a turn in the questions. I think that this kind of a question about the department working with the candidate is much more prevalent than those other questions I mentioned, where it's like trying to throw you off your game and your captain's been drinking. What do you do?What do you think? Do you think that there's a tone of questioning these days that's common?It's been a while since I've interviewed, so it's hard. But I do talk with my clients, and I ask them what questions have they been asked in their interview? Because what went well, right. I need to know, how did you do on this? What was your answer? Okay, let's dissect why this is good or why it's bad. I'll tell you what I do wish, okay. And I don't have any control over this, but I wish departments asked different questions that got to understand the candidate a little bit better.Right. When I think of a firefighter that I want to hire, I think of someone who has goals and aspirations. Ask a question about, like, hey, tell me about one of your goals and what are you doing to work towards that? What does it take for you to be successful? Right. Kind of a little paring off of your question that you had already asked, but what are the attributes that make you successful. Right.Help me understand who you are as a candidate. And I do want to know how you handle conflict with a coworker or a friend. I think that's important. Those are some behavioral things, but I want to see how much you think ahead. And there's the question, where do you see yourself in five years?Oh, yeah, that's really common. And I think that some people just don't think that far ahead, and that's okay. But I want to work with people that are thinking that far ahead. I want to have a family in five years. It could be something as simple as that.And we're engaged, and I want to have a family, or I want to go to a new country every year. There's got to be something that motivates you and drives you. And that's kind of the root of what that question is.That's great. Do you get involved in the hiring practice? Down the process, down at the port?So I was helpful. I helped out in the last round for laterals. And part of our hiring process is we do the panel interview, and then we give them a station tour. So I gave the station tour, and we kind of just walked them around and got them answered any questions that they had. So that was the part that I got to participate in.I haven't been there that long, so I'm kind of working my way up to being a part of the panel interview.Okay. All right. That's actually an interesting thing you mentioned in giving the tour. Did you get asked afterwards, like, how were they on the tour? Did you give feedback?Yeah. You're asked how they did on the tour, how did they interact with people? How they interact with people. That's a comment, like sidebarring from the. Absolutely. I would say that one thing that I think a lot of candidates don't understand is every interaction you have, whether it's an email, a phone call, a station tour, a ride along, even just, like, arriving for the interview.It's all part of the interview. It all adds up. Right. So be professional in your emails. Have a good, professional email address.Ask good questions. It used to be you'd park at the fire department for an interview. They would go out and look in your car. How messy is your car? Do you have food wrappers everywhere? Is your car covered in mud? You just went mudding or something like that. You're not setting a good example.And so I always caution people, like, every contact you have with the fire department is an interview.Yeah. This crossed my mind because when I used to in my previous job, where we were the county based agency, the billing person, the on staff billing person would staff the room where the oral boards were coming from, where the stations started, and so where the candidates gathered in between going out to the oral board, going out to the skill station, and she took notes the whole time. She was observant of how there was interaction, language, and demeanor. Trash talking about other interviews that people were going to. And that came into the room.It didn't come into the room when we were grading things, you're grading their skills or grading their interview, grading their oral board. But when we were discussing the candidates, it would come up and say, know, this person had Tourette's or something out in the waiting room because they just cussed a blue streak the whole time. They couldn't say a sentence without. And it sort of told you, like, wow, they were super on their best behavior in the interview, but that's how they're going to behave around the station. And whether that influenced or not hiring, it was just an observation that she had.You don't forget those people also, too. Actually, I've had emts transport for us, and even their interactions on calls, you don't forget they have a bad attitude. They're tired of being there. You don't forget it. And it's a small community, so your reputation really precedes you.I probably wouldn't have gotten hired at the port of Seattle if I had a bad reputation, because it's a small community and people talk. We've got people that used to work at the port of Seattle that now work at Everett and vice versa, and other departments, and your name will get.Out there, and you always know somebody that went to the academy with somebody.Exactly.You bump into them at the stairclimb. It's exactly like that. Ryan, this has been really fantastic, and I appreciate not only your expertise and your interest in what you're doing, but also your candor about answering so many questions. And I love getting this little Everett talk with you because this is fun for me, but I want to make sure that you have the opportunity to say anything. If there was a thought that you had in your mind, it's okay.If you don't. We can click and do all that stuff. But is there anything that you wanted to share?Yeah, I mean, be prepared, and part of preparation is just doing your homework. And if you're not sure if you want a coach or mentor, that's okay. I do a free consultation, so you can reach out with me. We sit down on 1520 minutes. And we just talk about where you're at in the process, and I can kind of mentor you along a little bit.I mean, I've got a girl that I've never had as a client at all, and her number got passed on to me and she had questions. She ended up getting hired at Everett. Common topic of this, of course, it's a theme.Sorry, unintentional theme, but it's a theme.Yeah. I spent over seven years there. I've got a big history there. It's a big chunk of my life, and I grew a lot there. But she's never been a client of mine.And I was talking with her and helping her through the process, and I never received a dime from her. I wanted her to be successful. So ultimately, if you have questions about the fire service or anything, hopefully we can kind of link up to my website, me and you can reach out and we can touch base.Okay, perfect. So what I'd love to do right now is have you say all of your contact information, because we'll get a transcript of this to make sure that we say the things the way that you want them said. But we'll also write it down.Okay.So however you like people to reach out to, you tell them, yeah.So you can go contact me via email. That's probably the best way. Which is ryancoaches one@gmail.com. So that's ryancoaches the number one@gmail.com.And then my website is ww dot nine one oneinterview.com. And there's a contact me form on there as well. You can sign up for the free consultation right on my website as well.I think that's a fantastic, it's a business plan that I'm sure we missed out on as part of what we do with our consulting company. I'm sure that there's a market. There's so many people that could benefit from it. And you also go out and you look to go to the trade schools, to the community colleges and so on.Yeah, because that's where I started out. And again, going back, I didn't know what the process of getting hired was. It was just nice. I was like, what do I wish I had when I was going through fire science? I wish somebody just kind of talked me through the process and talked to me about the interview. And a couple of the students were like, oh, I just interviewed for volunteer department last week.I wish you were here a week sooner. And I was like, hey, it's never too late to start practicing.That's great. You just mentioned something that I can't believe. I didn't think to bring it up early. It just didn't cross my mind. But of course, a lot of these interview processes are true for volunteer agencies as well.In fact, one of our previous episodes, we talked with fire commissioners and fire chiefs about their people, purpose and path. And I said, how are you getting your people? And they can have every bit as sophisticated interviews for volunteers as they do for career personnel at paid departments.It's the same work. It's the same work. And it's such a coveted position. And I think the difficulty of the job really translates over into the hiring process. If the hiring process was easy, well, then anybody could be getting hired.But it's difficult for a reason. It's a tough job. And the point is to kind of weed out the proverbial week. You know what I mean? Not everybody is made to do this work, and hopefully the hiring process weeds that person out, or those people.I love that. The idea that the hiring process is about just getting the right people to the right places. I want the square pegs in the holes that they fit in, and the round pegs and the odly shaped pegs. I want everybody to find their forever home, or at least their five year home. I have a five year theory, but find their five year home.Find their forever home. Whatever the right thing is for them and not this failed probationary year, or the heartbreak of interview after interview after interview and never learning anything from it or never gleaning anything from it. I think that's really sad when I hear that from my students.Yeah. I think the biggest one I've witnessed is that 11th hour of probation and the person gets let go. And it's like, that's hard on the department, it's hard on the individual, it's hard on their family. Not even looking at the financial aspect of things. It's just the time that they've devoted to that, and it just didn't click for some reason.And so that's what's heartbreaking.Yeah. I think that sometimes we make this assumption that. Sorry about that. Became somebody else there for a second. I think sometimes we make this assumption that if they didn't complete their probation, that there's something wrong with that person, that they're a flawed provider, they're too physically incapable, they're emotionally mentally incapable, or something like that.But so much of it really is, once you make it past their probationary year, it's because we want to spend the rest of our lives with you. And there might not be anything wrong with you, but it's just that this family, this dynamic that's been created or the things that you are putting out in the world don't seem to be where we want to go. And that's a real risk that you get let go from a job. It is simply because it wasn't your forever home. Everybody mutually realized that, hopefully, but it was mutually realized.And then now you've got to go somewhere and you've got this hanging over your head that it's like, trust me when I tell you that that was a real. We all eat meals together, we all crossfit together, we all hang out together afterwards. And that's not who I am. I'm a bit more introverted. And this is true about me.I've spoken about this before, but I'm more of an introvert. I like to work on these difficult problems and have the resources with me and share them with my. But I want to get into the nitty gritty. I like that. And one of the departments that was an option for me when the county process changed over was very much like, we do everything together.And I was like, I think I could die. I think one more meal together without that recharge, introversion time. That's knowing yourself going into this. I was very fortunate throughout. Honestly, through so many parts of my career, I have to count myself very, very fortunate.I've had bad jobs that taught me a lot for the really good jobs and getting them and what to value for work. And so I feel I'm very fortunate in that regard.That's good, and that's a good perspective to have. Because some people dwell on the negatives, and just because something doesn't go the way you wanted it to doesn't mean it's a negative thing. There's something to learn from that experience. And barring an interview aside, right. That's a good way to bring that into an interview process.But actually just learning about yourself. Hey, you know what? Firefighting just doesn't click for me. The mechanical. I struggle with mechanical aptitude. Well, you can either get better at it.It's a skill. You can learn that skill. Or if it's something that just doesn't interest you, maybe a different career choice is fine.Yeah. And speaking of skill, the skill of interviewing is going to help you if you want to apply to paramedic school, it's going to help you if you want to get a promotion. It's going to help you if you move up and decide to change jobs, not just because there's a problem at your current job, but because you want what that next department has to offer at a certain interval in your career. So even those people who have landed the job who may be listening to.This, there are options. And I also think it helps you just talk to people, too. You know more about yourself, and you're drawing from your experiences, and you have stories. And so you kind of remember certain things along the way, and you're like, oh, yeah, I kind of forgot about that. You asked me questions earlier, and I had forgotten about that training evolution where I had messed up.And you kind of go through those memories and practicing your interviewing skills actually translates into almost every aspect of your life.Absolutely.